Super 8mm Bargain Hunting Debate...

[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ekoe:
i disagree with your statements in the original post of this thread, alex. ebay, baby, ebay. there's nothing wrong with buying from individuals.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


-I never said don't buy from e-bay...I love E-bay, E-bay and forums such as this, John Longneckers site and a few others (and Pro-8mm) are what is saving Super-8 .....-Alex

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ekoe:
why so elitist?
to many of us super8 is a humble medium, as we either cannot afford to shoot super16 but refuse to sit idle, or we could not afford it at one time and we've simply grown to love it.
the super 8 filmmaking class would be wonderful. but everyone should have shared access to the film equipment, if they're paying the same tuition. don't you think?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

------The other students will be using digital gear, I don't think they will feel deprived, if so...all the better for the GROWTH of Super-8......-Alex


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ekoe:
if you can get the school to contribute funds to purchase decent equipment, right on.
but why would we want to create some sort of elite super 8mm society? it's laughable.
i don't intend to be offensive, but do you see my point?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


-You covered a lot of ground....now lets let some daylight back in.

Compared to Video, Super-8 is a complex format for a beginner. The idea is to foster curiosity and understanding between the similarities and differences between film and video to a group of young students...

I call that excellent education...

...and psychologically better than pushing a scant and undersupported but intriguing format such as Super-8 down a whole classrooms throat.

Elite simply means there will be only one group shooting Super-8...it doesn't mean they are better than the rest of the class.

When I went to College, I worked in the film-equipment room one semester.

Two weekends in a row, people returned Super-8 cameras and said the camera didn't work....

.....right in front of their eyes, I problem solved why the camera wasn't working,

usually, it was a simple fix...weak batteries, improperly installed batteries, etc....

Nonetheless, most of the students viewed Super-8 as the reason they were having problems with their film projects....and that once they got to 16mm, their production and filming woes would go away.

A class that offers Super-8 only won't fly until it is accepted in a limited run capacity first.

Kids like a new challenge, one Super-8 group to start with challenges those kids to learn...and everyone else processes the experience and you build interest.

Imposing Super-8 on the whole classroom will just create anarchy as the students quickly figure out that the Super-8 format is not currently too user friendly and slow to get results with, which can adversely affect their grade.

-Alex


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ekoe:
for many of us, it's the only way we can afford the good stuff, y'dig?
get the camera, an' shoot some gosh-dern film dammit. let's show them what super8 can do, and more independent filmmakers will feel inclined to put down their xl-1's and really start experimenting. super8 cameras are everywhere. we need to prove a demand for film, so the format itself does not disappear. do you understand? the money you pay to the used equipment dealer does not directly support super 8mm as a format.
kodak will hear nothing of it if your camera purchase does not contribute to film sales.
if i had paid what used equipment dealers ask for the cameras i own, i'd have spent over $2,ooo, on two cameras alone. since i paid half that amount, i can start shooting.
i'll meet you in the field and we'll compare acquisitions.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

-You risk the crumbling of the infrastructure of Super-8 if all you think about is how cheap you can get a camera for.

People who buy digital video cameras know they will be spending between $1,500 and $5,000....then the Non Linear Edit System is an additional expense...

If we are worried about whether we spend $50.00 or $ 500.00 on a camera, the formats resurgence will not be treated with respect...but if you find a camera for $50.00, God bless you....

...but let's not be angry if the camera we really want IS $ 500.00, the more the cameras sell for, the more people respect the format...so basically, we win either way....

-Alex




[This message has been edited by Alex (edited March 31, 2001).]

[Mildred_BONK]

You guys cover a lotta turf for a topic!!
But seriously, I've worked in a variety of mediums, and now I'm flirting with film. I didn't stay at "ART SCHOOL", because I decided that I'd rather spend $30,000 making art, than sit around for 3 years sinking into debt. I am poor. I am resouceful. I am humbled by the way that I innocently begin projects, and are gracefully rewarded with answers and lessons that I would not have been provided with had I stubbornly stuck to what I already knew. I WOULD NOT BE MAKING MY FILM RIGHT NOW IF SUPER 8 WERE NOT AN OPTION. The idea that it won't be around much longer is unbelievable to me. I can't afford to fart around with 16mm, and video isn't an option, too flat and self indulgent.
I have been picking up great gear, some cheap, with one indulgence in a Carena 7610,
on ebay, and am gonna have to find ways to make 15 year old kodachrome work, but retailers aren't really an option for me. Maybe that's the real IRONY of super 8. The same DIY quality so many embrace in super 8, might be the very thing that kills it.
Ultimately, I say that Kodak should take a little more interest in exploiting the talents of the UNDERGROUND filmmakers and
show people what can be done with it. It would give exposure to the artist, who would most likely happily participate to save super 8, and it would give kodak a fresh face for its product, and let everyone know that Super 8 is still very much alive and kicking. Computers are changing everything for retailers, and not just super 8 ones. They will either evolve or DIE, be it bookstores, photo supplies, or record shops.
Most of the time stores don't have the gear I want anyway. I searched for 3 years "on foot" for a 346A bell and Howell projector, but found one in three days on ebay for $9.99, about $140.01 cheaper than the projectors I did find. Let's be honest here, the scarcity of super 8 products is what retailers are banking on, they aren't selling out of the good of their heart, or else they wouldn't try to make such a killing. I don't know about new cameras, I never looked cause I know I can't afford them. If the companies that produce super 8 really want to save it, they are going to have to make the commitment too, and quit laying all the responsibility on US.

[Alex]

Just thought I'd kick this up from the archives.

I'm noticing the word cheap on a bunch of posts...so I thought this thread was appropriate.

-Alex

[ekoe]

cheap, fast and good.

[ekoe]

i'm razzing you, alex. i see your point entirely. one of the principle attractions to super8 is the cost, yet we must consider the future of the format. there's the rub.
the more serious super8 users won't take their footage to walmart, unless it's just camera tests or the like. but the lower costs will continue to turn on new users, which means more film sales. which, in turn, will incite more support for the format. so i think, in the end, the low-cost attraction of the format will be it's saving grace.
hey, what happened to that 'flywheel' post anyway?
-ekoe.

[Matt Pacini]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by capul8:
By the way, anybody out there have any tips for holding down the amount of time spent in transfer (at $200 -250 an hour!)"
To capu18 from Matt Pacini:
This is your lucky day!
I telecine'd my S8 feature, Lost Tribes, and there are a few things you can do to save time.
1. Call the place you are getting your telecine done, and talk to the colorist.
Tell them it's your first time, and ask them to give you all the info they can to assist you.
They actually appreciate this, (except Super 8 Sound, who acts like you are wasting their precious time), because if you're well prepared, it's easier for them too.

2. Make a complete log of the scenes you are having transferred, with length of scene listed, and short descriptions that you will understand. Mark which scenes need help; color correcting, lightening, etc.
Figure out your total budget for telecine, in terms of hours you can afford to be there, and then devide that proportianally between the scenes that you have to transfer.
Mark your transfer sheet with where you should be at each scene, as far as transfer time goes. Bring a watch with you to the session, to check your times.
So, if you are 25% through your scenes, but you've eaten up 35% of your time budget, you will know that you need to speed things up, which means making compromises in how important color correction is in certain scenes.
That's what I did, and I came in on my budget.
The alternative to this, is to get 3/4 the way into your session, and run out of time and money!
Feel free to email me with more specific questions.
P.S., make really, really quality splices (use Hervic splicetapes, NOT Kodaks!, or glue them together), and use really long leaders, like 15-20 feet on the heads AND tails.
Also, use 400ft reels. DO NOT go in with those cheesy little 50ft reels, and if you expect them to splice together footage for you, or splice together your faulty splices, GUESS WHAT? You will pay the usual fee for that luxury, so BE PREPARED!
Also, be really friendly. It wouldn't hurt to bring in a small sized ice chest, and offer your colorist drinks (non-alcoholic, of course)
I'm surprised at how many people act rude and uppity, thinking that they are acting professional by doing so. These people are dealing with James Cameron, Ron Howard, etc., there's nothing you are going to do to impress them, other than being a totally cool person to be around.
I got about two hours of free telecine thrown in, just because the guy liked working with me, and I was nice to him, and interested in what he was doing.
I wouldn't count on this in your budget, of course, but it's a nice thing when it happens.
I'll bet that doesn't happen to James Cameron!!! har har
Matt Pacini

[ulrichsd]

It is cheap but just common sense. I have been sending all of my test rolls to Dwayne's Photo for processing, which $9 plus $3 S&H. Walmart charges $5, no shipping and handling charges, and sends it to Dwayne's to have them do it anyway. Since Dwayne's is the only place I know that does Kodachrome processing, why would anyone (not just beginners) not send it through Walmart? Thanks a lot to Hanthx for pointing this out, which in the future will save me $6 per roll on processing Kodachrome.

Scott Ulrich

[ulrichsd]

Thanks, Alex for the email info about the status of the list BTW!

Scott

[ComingApart]

I agree with the original post, but there also some Super8 dealers whose only purpose is to rip people off, plain and simple. Example- I bought a Bolex Macrozoom 480 to fit a specific need. certainly not a great or valuable camera, but the quality is decent. I got if off of E-bay for $35 with orignal manual, box, UV and Haze filters, lens shade and filter key, while I was doing some internet research on the camera I found a place selling one for just over $500. It's a decent camera and all, but there is no possible way it's worth that much... BTW this place was also selling non-working B&H Autoloads for $75 to $100, how can you call that good practice?

[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ekoe:
i'm razzing you, alex. i see your point entirely. one of the principle attractions to super8 is the cost, yet we must consider the future of the format. there's the rub.
the more serious super8 users won't take their footage to walmart, unless it's just camera tests or the like. but the lower costs will continue to turn on new users, which means more film sales. which, in turn, will incite more support for the format. so i think, in the end, the low-cost attraction of the format will be it's saving grace.
hey, what happened to that 'flywheel' post anyway?
-ekoe. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good points.

About that flywheel thread. I thought my post was so bizarre that I saved it! I'm glad I did, because somehow the whole thread was eviscerated forever.

I missed your response post to it, which was clever also....one day, I will repost it, and see who "gets it".

The originator of the that flywheel thread so didn't get my satire, he e-maild me and asked me to remove it from the thread!

A day later, the whole Flywheel thread was missing.

It's almost like Bill Gates really is watching.

-Alex